FrequentlyAskedWildGooseChases

Here is a list of Frequently Asked Questions that never, ever lead anywhere, but result in big threads (and bruised egos) that have been well covered in the email archives.

If you have been directed here, then please read the relevant section to understand why continuing the thread will likely be a waste of everyone's time. Unless you have a truly incredible breakthrough that fundamentally changes the situation, please, please, PLEASE find something else to do. Building your own node is probably a good start.

If you're just getting started and stumbled on this page, you might try GetStarted, FrequentlyAskedQuestions, or WirelessFrequentlyAskedQuestions.

Notice how many of these start with the words "you should"? Meditate on that, oh wireless networking newbie. Consider the fundamental unity of the Universe, and in particular, the implications of substituting the word "I" for the word "you".

You should put APs on all of the telephone poles / street lights

Great idea. Politically infeasible for the forseeable future. Think installation, maintenance, power, liability, city contracts...

You should implement Micro Payments / Billing / Roaming for the users

This makes no sense if the scope of the project is to build a city-wide municipal area network based on free transit. You're probably thinking of charging for Internet access. We won't stop you from doing that, but we won't make it our life's mission to help you, either. Sorry.

You should find all of the high points around town / mountain sites and put APs there

Great idea! We never thought of that! Know of any sites with good power, protection from the elements, and the owner's explicit permission to put gear on his property that aren't 20 miles away from town? Offer your sites up for availability on the dev list. Please include Lat / Lon / Alt, current contact info, explicit conditions or restrictions, and preferably some nice photos from the site. No serious offers rejected!

Why not put up a weather balloon / kite / other flying object with an AP on it?

Even if you get them up in the air, they'll eventually fall. And see the arguments against telephone pole APs above.

You should be using a Mesh instead of mucking around with manual routing!

Please bring your working meshy implementation to hack night. Note that it must be free and run on conventional hardware to even be considered. And did we mention that it has to actually work?

Can I shut off my DSL line / can I get free Internet Access?

Possibly. That depends on the generosity of your neighbors, and how comfortable you are with being a freeloader. Internet access costs somebody hard-earned cash. A better question is, "what have YOU done to deserve free Internet access?"

You should use Solar powered Repeaters / APs

Yep, we certainly should. And a decent charging system that won't fry the battery store. Ooh, and a battery store big enough to sustain the system through the nights and occasional cloudy days that Seattle sees from time to time. And the batteries should be high enough quality that they'll last forever without being regularly discharged and eternally fed by a trickle charger. And the system should cost nothing, since you're probably going to put it in a place that is so remote that there is no power available, and nobody in their right mind would steal or vandalize something that cost nothing, right? And it should be maintenance-free.

Please send all offers of free solar gear and engineering time to the dev list. No serious offer refused.

Passive Repeaters don't work / will save the world

Actually, they do work under very specific circumstances. See the PassiveRepeater page for details.

We need to get rid of the Wiki / "Did you know that I can edit your web page?"

If you're new to Wikis, read PPR:WhyWikiWorks .

I've personally been long been a detractor from the Wiki. But time has proved me wrong.

Google for "pigtail". Or "hardware comparison". Or "linksys wrt54g" Or just about any wireless-related search phrase. SeattleWireless.net comes up because the Wiki is enormous, and constantly updated.

Sure, it gets defaced occasionally (particularly after one of our semi-weekly Slashdot hits). But the funny thing is, it gets put right back. And not just by one of the "organizers". Lots of people use it, and it's got some of the best and most authoritative and up-to-date info about the stuff we hack on. If only a handful of people had write access to the site, it would have been long forgotten by now.

The FrontPage should be static

Maybe. But probably not. If it were static, it wouldn't be up to date. And many times it's used (for better or worse) as a billboard for info that people might have missed on the mailing lists. If it's not "professional" enough for you, then you're working on the wrong project.

We need another MailingList

No, we don't. There are already five. Count 'em, five. That's dev, talk, announce, events, and support. In my book that's four (or possibly three) too many. The lists, when at their best, are a good way to disseminate relevant and timely information to an interested crowd of active enthousiasts. At their worst, they're a source of flame, trolls, FrequentlyAskedWildGooseChases, and worst of all, wasted effort. Instead of hitting 'reply', why not spend some time working on your node?

"A single implementation is worth a thousand flame baits". Or something.

Mailing lists are useless. We need forums.

No, we don't. Besides, the lists are already picked up by net news. If you really want an alternative Gmane has most of the lists available as a web forum and news groups. It's really quite a pleasant way to keep up with all the news and avoid having your inbox deluged with crap.

• http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.wireless.seattle.devel (NNTP)

• http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.wireless.seattle.announce (NNTP)

• http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.wireless.seattle.general (NNTP)

• http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.wireless.seattle.support (NNTP)

Why aren't you using XYZ routing protocol / Isn't RIP limited to 15 hops?

Shut up. Routing ain't the problem yet. Get your node online. If you want to talk routing, come to HackNight.

You should be using IPv6

Yep, we sure should. If you are interested in holding a class on the use and implementation of IPv6, as well as spearheading the effort to manage addresses, run an authoritative AAAA DNS server, and demonstrate IPv6's superiority over our current and implementation of mostly static routes between a handful of nodes, please come to HackNight! We'll give you the floor, we promise!

You should be using real, routable IP addressess

Of course we should. If you'd like to donate a class A or better, please contact the dev list. No serious offers rejected!

(Yes, we need a class A so there's enough to go around for everybody. This thing is bigger than Seattle, after all...)

You should Incorporate as a Non-Profit, so you can accept donations / limit liability / gain credibility

Credibility is not an issue at this stage (try PressCoverage to get acquainted with us).

Accepting donations as a non-profit (or hell, even incorporating as a non-profit, 501(c)(3) or not) requires money and interest. And to be done properly, it requires lawyers and accountants. We (the people who regularly show up at meetings and actually work on this project) do not have them. There are good arguements for and against working on this.

But until we get pro-bono lawyers (or a benevolent soul to pay for the work), and a body of people willing to serve on a board, it ain't gonna happen. Sorry. Don't think it hasn't been tried.

It says that you'll take my credit card number on seattlewireless .COM. How do I sign up?

We are NOT seattlewireless .COM. As far as we can tell, they're a bunch of scam artists trying to make a couple of lousy bucks by robbing people blind and cashing in on our domain name. Check archive.org's Wayback machine if you have any doubts.

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://seattlewireless.com/ http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://seattlewireless.net/

We recommend steering clear of them, and filing a complaint with the Better Business Bureau if you've been taken in by them.

Where is the Node Map?

Good question. Why don't you build one for us? It should be simple to maintain, visually compelling, and include all relevant data.

But before you make it your life's work, consider the possible benefit of actually spending your time working on getting more nodes up. Remember that many have tried, none have (yet) succeeded on this project. It will be harder to do than you think. Really.

And on that subject: we'll only consider a Node Map project "official" when the source code gets released. Sorry. Until then, use NoCat Maps at http://maps.nocat.net/

Which wireless card / access point / antenna is the best one?

I dunno. Try the HardwareComparison. That's what it's for.

You want one that's very sensitive, with enough power for your application, probably with an external antenna connector, that's within your budget. Sorry, but there is no way to be more specific than that without doing your work for you.

The "right" antenna for your application varies widely with what you intend to do with it. Go read up on the subject.

Where do I post my war driving maps?

You don't. Don't waste your time WarDriving. It does nothin' for nobody, 'cept for alarmist newspaper columnist's careers. Or maybe generating some interesting statistics.

Why not build a useful network instead?

Why don't we meet on the East Side?

Because most of us don't live there. Make a compelling reason to have it there and I guarantee people will show up.

Is there a meeting this Sunday?

Probably not, for various reasons. Mostly, people weren't getting as much out of General Meetings as they do from HackNight. We'll still have them occasionally, whenever it's appropriate.

If you have something you'd like to present at a GeneralMeeting (that isn't appropriate for HackNight), send an email to talk or dev. No serious offers rejected!

You know what you should do / Why aren't you doing / You need to do X

That's so true! Next question.

Can I hook up an antenna to my XYZ card?

I dunno. Check the HardwareComparison. If it's a radio card, and it has an external antenna connector, then you probably just need a PigTail.

Take me off this list!

No. Take yourself off. Instructions are on the MailingLists page, as well as in the email headers of every list mail that goes out. The list does NOT subscribe people randomly. If you're on a list, then you must have subscribed to it yourself.

You need funding / who pays for all of this / What is the business model?

There is no business model. We don't need funding. We pay for all of it ourselves, like idiots. And despite all of that, this project has been going on for three years, and is one of the best known and most widely respected community wireless network projects on the planet.

Go away, we don't want any.

How should I set up my home network?

I dunno. Try reading the Wiki, or the MailingLists archives, or any of the thousands of wireless community group sites out there, or Google, or buy Rob's book(s).

http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wirelesscommnet2/ http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/wirelesshks/

Will this wireless shot work?

Maybe. Or maybe not. To figure that out, you'll need to know the distance between the points, whether or not you have line of sight, the gain of your antennas and radios, whether there are any intervening obstacles, whether there is much noise in the area...

Wait, this tool will do it for you! http://my.athenet.net/~multiplx/cgi-bin/wireless.main.cgi

If you can't work that web form, and are incapable of reading up on the subject yourself, maybe you shouldn't be pointing high powered microwave emitters at your neighbors, eh?

This whole thing must be illegal!

Hey, cool! Maybe you're right! Good for you. It never occurred to any of us to actually think about our actions, or research relevant statutes, or consult with experts, or read about this stuff on anything but this unreliable wiki. Moving right along...

Why does my Linksys thingy / $40 AP / $10 wireless card suck?

I dunno. I guess you get what you pay for.

Isn't wireless insecure?

Sure is. But not nearly as insecure as the people who habitually post this question. Sorry, but I don't offer psychoanalysis for free via email. Next question.

Something is wrong or inaccurate with this wiki page!! You should make XYZ corrections

Click the edit text link at the bottom and change it yourself. Read HelpOnFormatting if you do not understand how.

Why are you doing this?

We're a bunch of idiots who believe that it just might be possible to benefit our community by donating our time, effort, equipment, Internet access, expertise, and patience to build something that has never heretofore existed. We simply want to make the city we live in a better place. There's no business model, we don't get paid, and above all, we don't believe for a second that it's impossible. If you think you're insane enough to lend a hand to such an effort, we'd love to work with you.

But telling us that it'll never work, or that we're doing it wrong, or that it's all doomed, especially without having contributed anything but words on a mailing list won't move us at all. Please do us all the kindness of leading with your actions, or finding something else to do with your time.